nell65: (Default)
nell65 ([personal profile] nell65) wrote2005-09-15 08:54 am
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Meta on "Why I Love the Het"

The lj world is overflowing with 'why I like m/m slash' or 'why women like m/m slash' essays (and the odd, 'why I don't like m/m slash' essay in answer), but het fanciers, like myself, haven't had to produce much meta about why they like what they do.

Some of this is the straightforward result of the dominant heterosexual culture in which we all live, that is, you don't have to explain why you like what the majority of people around you and the culture at large assume you like, because, duh, of course you like that, doesn’t everyone? This is also at least part of the reason for all the "why I/women like m/m slash" essays and questions out there - it isn't the standard assumption that women like to read and write m/m romance or porn and so it does seem to beg explanation and exploration, even and perhaps especially by those who are drawn to it and find that they need to understand for themselves why they are swimming against the tide, as it were.

The thing about the lj fanfic world however, and especially the meta fanfic conversations (which I totally enjoy and follow almost more avidly than all but my primary fandom these days), is that it is dominated by the m/m shipping conversations, so much so that the het fanciers are starting to feel a little tossed about as the tide pulls in the other direction.

Which you know, is good for us. A little self-exploration of why you like what you like, and why certain things ping for you, never hurt anyone and probably helps many.

Now - I freely admit I am not a 'standard' het-shipper (assuming such a creature actually exists, as with the m/m fans, everyone has their own take on why they like what they like), and I may even be pretty much an outlier in the sense that I am pretty self-conscious about the particular sets of issues that fascinate me and hold me steady and fixated on the het as a writer and a reader. But I thought if I tossed this out, it might start at least, all the 'yes, but....' conversations that are so interesting. To me. *g*

That being said, some of the things that hold me to het, (and to a smaller degree the f/f) are pretty standard among het-fanciers at large, at least if I've been reading my meta+comments correctly. I love women, all shapes and stripes and sizes, and I want stories that feature women front and center. All of the fandoms that interest me most these days (with a few exceptions I could talk about later) have in canon a variety of strong and interesting women. I want them in my fic, just as I adore them in the canon source. Het and f/f and the rarer still gen (by which I mean stories without a central romance plot, rather than simply stories without sex) are therefore my stories of choice.

Second, when it comes to porn, I may be sufficiently unimaginative (though I don't really believe this, I just think it's the way I'm wired), but - in general - if there are not girl parts getting all wet and sticky *in the fic* generally mine don't either, metaphorically speaking, of course. ;-) There are certainly some exceptions, but as a general thing, this holds up over and over again. The identical, average, vaguely OOC BDSM situation, for example, leaves me unmoved when it features m/m, but when it's f/f has me squirming in my chair. That just is - it's not a defense or a rationale, just an observation about my preferences.

So - there are two incredibly basic reasons for my het-centric reading and writing tastes. Nothing terribly remarkable or unpredictable about them. Or particularly meta-ish!

If that's *all* it was, I probably wouldn't be writing this, of course. My love for the het is also political and intellectual and even at some level philosophical (in the metaphysics of the human condition sort of way).

I'm a feminist. And overwhelmingly heterosexual in orientation and life experience. I suspect had the 'right woman' ever come along, things might be different - but she didn't and the right boys did, and so here I am. A married, duel-career + family het woman. Which means that I'm riveted to the intellectual and political challenge of how, given all our cultural baggage, bulging with centuries worth of expectations for how 'men' and 'women' are supposed to behave, men and women actually create and maintain meaningful and mutually satisfying relationships, now or in any time.

Het-fic strokes this jones of mine in every story, from the awesomely good to the horrifyingly bad - at their core - *all* het stories struggle with this problem. And so, in my own home fandom - La Femme Nikita the Series, which is overwhelmingly het in orientation for a whole bunch of reasons I'd be happy to discuss later if anyone is curious, I have read completely or in part almost every story ever written and archived. Which means I've read a ton of het fic, ranging from the awesome to the really sappy and silly, through the horrifyingly awful, to the absolutely enraging. And I keep reading it - because in every one of those stories, the issues that fascinate me are raised - from how a man and a woman, given all their confusing and conflicting needs and desires and expectations, manage to get it on at all (lust of course usually gets things going - and I love reading stories where the female character gets to acknowledge and revel in her lust for a truly hot guy), to how they sustain the relationship beyond lust - in particular how does the woman cope with the ripe-tide of expectations that her first function is to put the relationship above all else vs. her own need to maintain herself and her own identity, separate from the 'we' of the relationship.

Now, I freely acknowledge that in far too many het-focused stories this conflict between self and couple has been reduced to series of clichés that are alarmingly rigid and often do damage to stories that began on an interesting premise. We have willful misunderstandings, interior monologues about what will be/was lost when commitments are made, whiny stupid refusals to accede to reasonable requests, and agonizing over stepping over the line to make a life choice that signals that one party has capitulated to the other's self-needs. Often with result that one of them, usually the woman, has to be rescued from some really silly, self-inflicted scenario by the dashing, manly hero. In far too much of the forgettable fic, this is all resolved through mind-blowing sex and a return to frighteningly conventional notions of m/f couple hood that seem to come right out of a promise-keeper's handbook to happy marriages. So, the conclusion is often irritating - but what keeps me reading is the ways that the authors, overwhelmingly women, raise the issues in the first place.

What does the female want, in this story? What does the male want? Why? How do they go about trying to get it? How do cultural expectations help or hinder them? How do they manage to communicate to their lover what their needs and desires are, if they've even managed to figure them out? What if all their needs and desires simply can't be met? What if they have fundamental differences in the way they see their world or want it to be shaped? How do gender expectations play into it? How don't they? If you love him/her, is it okay to do something that otherwise you wouldn't? Is it imperative that you do so? If you make a commitment - to, say conventional marriage - does that mean you have accept the traditional patterns, or can you continue to buck them and make your own way?

In my fandom, for example, Nikita wants to not be an uber-secret undercover agent more than almost anything else. Never gonna happen, she is a slave, in very literal ways, held by her spymasters until she dies. So - given that she can't have that and her lover, Michael, can't really give it to her, no matter how much he would like to, what, if anything, can they settle on instead? Can he give her the next thing she wants? The freedom, in Section, to operate independently of the rules that bind them with regard to whose lives they save and whose lives they don't? Sometimes. When it suits his needs. Or at least doesn't interfere with them. Can she accept this partial freedom of action? Will she? Will she challenge him about it? As she grows in professional knowledge and competence, will she challenge him less out of understanding? Or more, out of confidence in her own judgment? How will each of them use gender expectations to get what they want? From outsiders or from each other? By acceding to them or defying them? Seeing how each new story featuring them tackles this problem has kept me in this fandom for nine years - since 1997. (Counting *that* out on my fingers was a little scary!) ((Madeline/Operations stories also deal with this, and I read them too!))

I read and write het-fic for the exploration of the conflict between self and couple, between mine and ours, me and we, between a woman and a man.

I'm enough of a post-modernist, intellectually, to read all this conflict, all human relationships, as essentially about power - who has it, under what circumstances, and how do they use it? Wisely, carefully, carelessly, to heal, to harm, to bully, to build? Add to that gender-based confusion and conflict, and I love it all.

Even formulaic Harlequin lines acknowledge these sites of m/f conflict, on their way to a resolution. Het-centric fanfic does it using characters and situations that are almost always more interesting than anything hack romance authors have to offer - which is why I read here, and not in the grocery store - though as I grow more self-conscious about my own reading issues, I actually pick these up with more curiosity than ever - though I can't bring myself to pay for one when I can get the equivalent for free, online!

I understand, from the meta, that what draws many readers/writers to the m/m is the tantalizing possibility of avoiding all the things I just talked about - for me, the love of the het is the inverse. I embrace all this, and I want to read and write about it.

[identity profile] delle.livejournal.com 2005-09-15 11:47 am (UTC)(link)
oh, you rock. what a fabulous essay.

(of course it doesn't hurt that what interests you in het fic is precisely what interests me in het fic)

may I link in my LJ?

Wow. A lot to chew on.

[identity profile] jaybee65.livejournal.com 2005-09-15 12:08 pm (UTC)(link)
I should probably go to my own LJ and sum up my own thoughts in a more systematic way, but because I love tangents (*g*), I'll tackle one or two here.

This particular meta topic certainly seems to fascinate fandom. Including me, I confess. In part, it's because while I live in a society almost utterly saturated in sexuality, I almost never discuss it with people in real life. It took fandom to present me with a huge cross-section of women being unusually open about what interests them sexually. My reaction has beem something along the lines of, "Wow! Where the hell do I fit in here, and where am I similar to and different from everyone else?" So yeah. Posts like this are wonderful, because they're thoughtful attempts to "find one's place" as opposed to bashing someone for having different preferences.

I am, for the most part, a Gen person, in the sense that you defined "Gen" above (that is, I prefer stories that are not relationship-focused, even if they do contain romance or even explicit sex as a natural part of whatever plot is unfolding). But when it comes to relationship-fic, I, too lean toward het and f/f.

Second, when it comes to porn, I may be sufficiently unimaginative (though I don't really believe this, I just think it's the way I'm wired), but - in general - if there are not girl parts getting all wet and sticky *in the fic* generally mine don't either, metaphorically speaking, of course. ;-) There are certainly some exceptions, but as a general thing, this holds up over and over again. The identical, average, vaguely OOC BDSM situation, for example, leaves me unmoved when it features m/m, but when it's f/f has me squirming in my chair. That just is - it's not a defense or a rationale, just an observation about my preferences.

I'm still squeamish about being frank about such things, but...yes. There is a wiring issue at play, which reduces my reaction to this: m/f = hot; f/f = hot; m/m = *yawn*. I don't find m/m squicky, just completely non-erotic. I read m/m slash and can enjoy it for many reasons (the writing, the dialogue, the interactions between characters, etc.), but I have never found (and I suspect will never find) it hot. I don't know why. It's not from any lack of appreciating good-looking men, because I certainly do. I don't know what it's from -- and I confess to having been really very surprised and quite taken aback to find out just how many women (judging by fandom) *do* find it erotic. It's like suddenly finding out I'm colorblind and have spent my entire life unknowingly being unable to see the color green. I can't necessarily stop being colorblind, but it's very enlightening and quite fascinating to discover that others don't see the world the way I do.

There are other tangents I can seize on, but I'll come back later.

Re: Wow. A lot to chew on.

[identity profile] delle.livejournal.com 2005-09-15 12:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't find m/m squicky, just completely non-erotic. I read m/m slash and can enjoy it for many reasons (the writing, the dialogue, the interactions between characters, etc.), but I have never found (and I suspect will never find) it hot. I don't know why. It's not from any lack of appreciating good-looking men, because I certainly do. I don't know what it's from -- and I confess to having been really very surprised and quite taken aback to find out just how many women (judging by fandom) *do* find it erotic. It's like suddenly finding out I'm colorblind and have spent my entire life unknowingly being unable to see the color green. I can't necessarily stop being colorblind, but it's very enlightening and quite fascinating to discover that others don't see the world the way I do.

Wow. What a gorgeous way of explaining it. Because, yeah, slash doesn't do it for me? Doesn't mean it's bad or icky or whatever... just that it doesn't push my particular buttons.

I love your analogy to being color-blind. I do love green, though (trees, etc), can we make it, oh, beige or purple or something? *g*

Thanks!

[identity profile] nell65.livejournal.com 2005-09-15 01:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I knew, of course, that you are as much or more of a het-fancier than I am *g* - but it's nice to know that what I wrote struck a cord.

Link away - part of the purpose is to add to the large scale meta that is my current fannish obsession!

Nell

Coming back for more

[identity profile] jaybee65.livejournal.com 2005-09-15 03:41 pm (UTC)(link)
This is a fun exercise, and it's made me sit down and think about my own preferences in a more systematic way. My conclusion? People's reasons for reading het are just as varied and incapable of being boiled down to a single "answer" as are the reasons people read slash.

You identified a few factors that apply to you. If you forgive the simplistic paraphrasing, they are (more or less): (1) you prefer that female characters be included in your reading material; (2) m/m slash doesn't hold much erotic interest for you; and (3) your favorite theme in fan fiction centers on the ways in which men and women navigate their relationships with each other – a theme which is at the heart of all het fic.

I read your essay and found myself nodding in recognition at points #1 and #2. But when I got to #3, I found myself thinking, "Oh, that's interesting, but it doesn't apply to me." Which in turn made me ask myself what *my* theme of preference is. Having given it some thought, I think it involves more of an internal conflict than external. I like reading about the struggle between human strength and weakness, or to use religious terminology, "virtue" versus "sin." Accordingly, I tend to like characters whose lives are, in essence, a battlefield between those two tendencies. In practice, this tends to mean supporting characters – not most fandom heroes/heroines, whose virtues outweigh their flaws too much for my taste, and not completely "evil" villains, either, who have the opposite problem. Rather, I like characters whom one might best describe as "morally challenged" as opposed to outright evil, and I like stories which explore the boundaries of that internal conflict.

However, I realize that there is absolutely nothing inherent about this theme that would prevent it from being explored just as well in m/m slash as in het or f/f. Or gen. So, I think my reading preference with respect to m/m really boils down to the first two reasons you mentioned, with the heaviest emphasis on #1 (primarily liking to read about women).

Re: Wow. A lot to chew on.

[identity profile] jaybee65.livejournal.com 2005-09-15 03:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Beige it is, then. *g*

I love the color blind analogy too -

[identity profile] nell65.livejournal.com 2005-09-15 06:51 pm (UTC)(link)
because it certainly captures a lot of my initial bewilderment when I realized just how much m/m is out there, outside my tiny, feral little het-focused fandom.

You see what? And it makes you feel how? Huh..... and I read and read and read and waited for the magical transition to the m/m love that so many described .... and ..... nothing. nada. zip.

Made me feel all left out, and 12 years old and stuff.

Which is part of how I got so very self conscious about why I like what I *do* like!

N

Re: Wow. A lot to chew on.

[identity profile] nell65.livejournal.com 2005-09-15 07:01 pm (UTC)(link)
As you know, some of my intial negative reaction to some m/m was a lot more intense than 'meh.' Or perhaps better put, as I kept reading m/m in more and more fandoms, seeking the powerful response so many fen described, rather than the 'meh' I was feeling, I turned to some of my oldest favorite stories, which are huge arenas of m/m fic - Hornblower and LOTR, and I got the powerful response. Only, to my utter shock and dismay - it was almost wholly negative.

It took me quite a while to work through all that.

This particular meta topic certainly seems to fascinate fandom. Including me, I confess. In part, it's because while I live in a society almost utterly saturated in sexuality, I almost never discuss it with people in real life. It took fandom to present me with a huge cross-section of women being unusually open about what interests them sexually. My reaction has beem something along the lines of, "Wow! Where the hell do I fit in here, and where am I similar to and different from everyone else?" So yeah. Posts like this are wonderful, because they're thoughtful attempts to "find one's place" as opposed to bashing someone for having different preferences.

Oh yes - I very definitely have felt, and continue to feel this way. Thus, this post, for example. *g*

I also really like the colorblind metaphor, it really captures some of my first responses to the m/m squeeing I found, once I ventured outside LFN.

I've certainly trained myself to be open to the m/m slashy vibes, and I can see now in many of the canon sources, where the m/m writers/fen are coming from. I don't *feel* it - but I do see it.

Re: Coming back for more

[identity profile] nell65.livejournal.com 2005-09-15 07:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh yes, I completely agree that there are as many reasons to love the het as there are readers and writers for it.

For example, at least based on what I've read via fandom_wank, I'm reasonably sure that the avid H/Hr shippers aren't looking for the same exploration of male/female conflict in their romances that I am.....

(1) you prefer that female characters be included in your reading material; (2) m/m slash doesn't hold much erotic interest for you; and (3) your favorite theme in fan fiction centers on the ways in which men and women navigate their relationships with each other – a theme which is at the heart of all het fic.

You paraphrase beautifully. That's it - and while #1 and #2 are probably most important to me as a reader, after all I do seek out f/f and gen as well as het, #3 is definitely my primary focus as a writer.

Having given it some thought, I think it involves more of an internal conflict than external.

You say 'tragedy,' I say 'comedy of manners' ? *bg*

Re: I love the color blind analogy too -

[identity profile] jaybee65.livejournal.com 2005-09-15 08:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Made me feel all left out, and 12 years old and stuff.

It made me feel oddly defective. Now I'm comfortable enough with myself to realize I'm just "differently abled." *g*

Re: Coming back for more

[identity profile] jaybee65.livejournal.com 2005-09-15 08:23 pm (UTC)(link)
You say 'tragedy,' I say 'comedy of manners' ? *bg*

Heh. It really does circle back to that, doesn't it?
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[identity profile] swatkat24.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 09:13 am (UTC)(link)
Which means that I'm riveted to the intellectual and political challenge of how, given all our cultural baggage, bulging with centuries worth of expectations for how 'men' and 'women' are supposed to behave

I've not heard many people talk about this - I know it's not something *I'm* looking for in fic. Now I'm wondering if it may have something to do with my own utter disregard for what is termed 'masculine' or 'feminine' in society.

On a tangent, you really should watch Buffy. As a self-proclaimed 'feminist' show (altho, it's version of feminism
can be alternately heavy-handed/downright problematic/just badly written), it plays around with a lot of ideas on womanhood which you should find interesting. Plus, damn good show with loads of interesting female characters. *tempts*

Swatkat
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Re: Coming back for more

[identity profile] swatkat24.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 09:22 am (UTC)(link)
I HATE how the Harmonians have decided that their romance-novelised version of Hermione is teh Ideal Woman, and anything else (even when Hermione's *creator* comes up with them) is just wrong wrong wrong, when in reality this version of Hermione destroys everything that Hermione is, that she stands for. She's a wonderful character, and deserves much more respect for what she is than she's currently getting from these so-called Hermione fans.

Which, of course, has nothing to do with this discussion. *sheepish*

Swatkat

[identity profile] nell65.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 10:03 am (UTC)(link)
I've not heard many people talk about this

I live inside academia - we talk about the social construction of gender all the time, and I'm fascinated (if sometimes horrified) by how gender expectations are playing out in my own life, particularly with regards to my roles as wife and mother.

So, I see gendered behavior everywhere - which is fine with me because I'm fascinated by it.

I don't see gender as 'bad' either - not only is it inescapble, it is marvelous in its complexity and confusion and I can't imagine anything ickier than a world where everyone is the same, with regard to how they are expected to behave sexually or socially.

[identity profile] nell65.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 10:06 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, and on Buffy. I know - I keep hearing about it from this perspective, so I imagine I will someday get around to watching it. I also really enjoyed Joss Wheadon's short lived Firefly, so maybe?

But I do know I haven't rushed out to embrace it because I am a bit skeptical about just how much I'm going to enjoy a show that features teenagers, and is told from their POV, with all their teenage issues.....
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[identity profile] swatkat24.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 10:42 am (UTC)(link)
But I do know I haven't rushed out to embrace it because I am a bit skeptical about just how much I'm going to enjoy a show that features teenagers, and is told from their POV, with all their teenage issues.....

Oh, but the teenage/highschool issues are really tied up to more important issues, and the show is really all about Buffy's journey to womanhood and responsibility! And Buffy is just your type! And Willow! And the canon f/f! And an inexhaustible supply of pairings! Do I need to ask [livejournal.com profile] msgenevieve to help me with the convincing?

Swatkat

[identity profile] jaybee65.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 11:01 am (UTC)(link)
I'll chime in here. The teenage issue annoys me, too -- mostly in terms of having to suffer through painful SoCal-teenaged-type dialogue. However, if you can get past that (or at least learn to ignore it), I agree with Swatkat that Buffy is *exactly* your type, Nell. (I am, of course, more of a Faith partisan. Interestingly, though, I don't mind Buffy. It's Willow I want to suffocate with a plastic bag. Don't ask me why, as I haven't figured it out yet.)

*flings up hands in surrender*

[identity profile] nell65.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 11:20 am (UTC)(link)
Okay - I'll ask MrNell to put the first disk on the netflix queue!

I'll let you know what I think about it after I see it. Deal? *g*

N
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[identity profile] swatkat24.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 11:32 am (UTC)(link)
Hee, I was talking about fandom - I haven't come across many fans stating this as something that interests them in fanfic. *g*

I don't see gender as 'bad' either - not only is it inescapble, it is marvelous in its complexity and confusion

I don't see it as bad either - as you said, it's inescapable, and there are plenty of good things about it. *g*

I'm fascinated (if sometimes horrified) by how gender expectations are playing out in my own life

I got horrified by gender expectations, and how they affect me as an individual, at a very early age - I'm afraid I never quite recovered from it. *g* Lately, I *have* been taking interest in gender studies (because, after all, my identity as an individual is inescapably tied to my identity as a woman, and I need to know), but there's a lot more I need to read before I could even begin to speak on that topic. I'm not sure if it'll ever be as important to me as it is to you, though - I'm interested in Buffy, the individual: her gender is only a (very important) part of it.

Swatkat
ext_7700: (smile)

[identity profile] swatkat24.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 11:36 am (UTC)(link)
Ooooh, you like Faith? *incoherent squee*

I heart Willow too, but eeeeee!Faith!

Swatkat
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[identity profile] swatkat24.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 11:39 am (UTC)(link)
Mwahahaha!

Of course, you must also remember that S1 isn't the strongest Buffy season (and there are only 12 eps in it), and that you need to watch S2 before you decide on whether you'll continue or not. *g*

Swatkat

[identity profile] nell65.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 11:52 am (UTC)(link)
Hee, I was talking about fandom - I haven't come across many fans stating this as something that interests them in fanfic.

Well, there isn't much (any?) serious 'het-meta' (to turn an ugly phrase!) out there.

But I certainly have read many a pro-m/m manifesto that points to the freeing absence of gender expectations as part of the appeal of the m/m, that claim writing m/m as a feminist act of imaging a loving human relationships without the 'distortion' of 'power imbalences' of m/f relationships. Gender and it's affects, in other words, is central to many expressions of love for the m/m - but it is usually construed negatively, as in this presentation, as something to be escaped.

I don't want to escape it (because I don't think it is possible nor do I believe that men stop struggling to be "men" just because they are in the company of other men. Just the opposite tends to happen, in fact, in both my research and my life observations....). I want to explore it, and all the challenges it offers.

Which is part of what led me to write this, actually, gender theory is such a prominent sub-theme in the pro m/m musings that I wanted to write about how it is part of my love for the het, but not to escape but rather to wallow in. *g*

[identity profile] nell65.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 04:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Hmm. That sounded a trifle more hostile about m/m stories than I intended, because there certainly are a lot of really well done and interesting m/m stories that capture the same kinds of tensions in the central relationship that I read het for. I know, because I read or skimmed a fair amount, waiting impatiently for the m/m love to strike me. *bg*

There is a lot of interesing Dan/Casey (Sportsnight) fic, for example, that wrestles with their profesional rivalries and jealousies and what kind of hurdles these put before them as they struggle (and sometimes fail) to build a statisfying romantic relationship. Or Aragorn/Boromir stories that acknowledge and include the tensions between them with regard to Aragorn's claim to rule the city that Boromir once expected to inherit. So, when I'm scanning rec pages for things to read, I do look for these pairings and read them with interest and enjoyment, especially the ones that explore the messy and unresolved parts of their relationships. I just don't read them for the 'hawt!' .... *g*

[identity profile] jaybee65.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 05:14 pm (UTC)(link)
I would agree -- she is eminently squee-worthy. *g*

(Btw, I hate you for pimping all these fandoms! I don't have time for them! Arrrrgh!)
ext_7700: (smile)

[identity profile] swatkat24.livejournal.com 2005-09-16 08:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I would agree -- she is eminently squee-worthy. *g*

I'm surprised that you like her (YAY!). I thought you might be annoyed by a lot of things about her character.

Btw, I hate you for pimping all these fandoms! I don't have time for them! Arrrrgh!

What can I say? I'm just a caring-sharing person. *innocent smile*

Swatkat

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