Oh, I'm glad you linked me to this, it's fascinating, and probably may well be a guide to my thinking about what interests me in het.
Thanks - my pleasure! And I'm glad to know it resonated beyond my fandom (all the other commentors are fellow LFNers, so I wasn't really sure if it was more fandom specfic than I realized or intended).
I totally feel for you in terms of the lj meta context, where the talk is about slash, and that feels like the norm. Using it as an opportunity to look at where a het-fancier's 'yes, buts' come in, is a great way of going about it, and doing so without being defensive but more about how you've got to where you are is completely to be commended, because it's helpful.
I was totally absorbed by all the slash meta - mostly because I didn't really 'get' slash - for a very long time, but then it seemed like it was time to quit worrying about other people's tastes and start exploring my own. *g*
I take on board your point bout reading about strong and intereting women (though what I have to figure out is why I prefer to read about some women over others, is i self-identification or more complicated?)
Oh absolutely - there is a lot of that. Some people like Byronic heroes, male or female, other's prefer the stoic Gunman, etcc.....and that will defintely affect *which* female characters people like and respond too.
The colour-blindness metaphor, or rather the point that it lead to about being able to see slashy undertones, but nt feeling them, is true to my experience.
Jaybee is a very smart cookie.
Perhaps then, the fact that the more general philosophical question that interests you isn't at the core of my reading, or not so consciously, anyway, because I prefer stories where characters make it work that does look at the interior, the emotional and psychological aspects of that, that makes me say that.
I'm not sure I'm representative, really, of most fic readers - because I *do* think of my tastes this way, but then, I've also spent a lot of meta time with friends comparing our different tastes in LFN stories/characters....and we wandered far afield into philosophies of life and the rest.
So I don't knowingly look out for it, or don't see the sites of conflict in this light, because it seemed to me, in reading your description about the working out that is part of a m/f ship (with the added view of gender expectations) that would be something that would happen in longer fics and established relationship fics.
Longer fics, at least, because the non-canon het pairing will need a fair amount of development as well....though like most people these days (at least on lj) I tend to read short because I'm out of time, but it isn't really my preference.
I tend to see fandom as providing shorter first time fics, though that may be because I read unconventional ships which have different story needs? Or maybe we're just reading different?
I think that is probably more fandom specific than not. The two dominate het pairings in LFN are established either before canon even begins, or literally, in the very first episode - so first time stories just don't have much place. As for shorter - I think that is a broad lj trend? (I don't have much evidence, just a gut feeling as a reader).
But I do agree with you about the problematic resolutions of the more forgettable/frustrating fic - especially when it seems to jettison what we know about characters.
Absolutely - a lot of it is just horrid and on so many levels. But in some ways, even the horror interests me - because I'm fascinated by the power of the dominate cultural tropes to overpower more original stories.
What you're saying about LFN (I haven't watched it) as a mainly het fandom is interesting - Dark Angel too has very little slash, though there was space in the canon for femslash, at least.
Interestingly enough, there is plenty of space in LFN for both f/f and m/m, in the sense that the main male was hit on more than once, in canon, by other men - but in terms of plot lines and regular/reccuring characters - the f/f is way ahead in terms of writing potential. I never watched Dark Angel (Jessica Alba, right?), but it certainly looked like something I would enjoy.
no subject
Thanks - my pleasure! And I'm glad to know it resonated beyond my fandom (all the other commentors are fellow LFNers, so I wasn't really sure if it was more fandom specfic than I realized or intended).
I totally feel for you in terms of the lj meta context, where the talk is about slash, and that feels like the norm. Using it as an opportunity to look at where a het-fancier's 'yes, buts' come in, is a great way of going about it, and doing so without being defensive but more about how you've got to where you are is completely to be commended, because it's helpful.
I was totally absorbed by all the slash meta - mostly because I didn't really 'get' slash - for a very long time, but then it seemed like it was time to quit worrying about other people's tastes and start exploring my own. *g*
I take on board your point bout reading about strong and intereting women (though what I have to figure out is why I prefer to read about some women over others, is i self-identification or more complicated?)
Oh absolutely - there is a lot of that. Some people like Byronic heroes, male or female, other's prefer the stoic Gunman, etcc.....and that will defintely affect *which* female characters people like and respond too.
The colour-blindness metaphor, or rather the point that it lead to about being able to see slashy undertones, but nt feeling them, is true to my experience.
Jaybee is a very smart cookie.
Perhaps then, the fact that the more general philosophical question that interests you isn't at the core of my reading, or not so consciously, anyway, because I prefer stories where characters make it work that does look at the interior, the emotional and psychological aspects of that, that makes me say that.
I'm not sure I'm representative, really, of most fic readers - because I *do* think of my tastes this way, but then, I've also spent a lot of meta time with friends comparing our different tastes in LFN stories/characters....and we wandered far afield into philosophies of life and the rest.
So I don't knowingly look out for it, or don't see the sites of conflict in this light, because it seemed to me, in reading your description about the working out that is part of a m/f ship (with the added view of gender expectations) that would be something that would happen in longer fics and established relationship fics.
Longer fics, at least, because the non-canon het pairing will need a fair amount of development as well....though like most people these days (at least on lj) I tend to read short because I'm out of time, but it isn't really my preference.
I tend to see fandom as providing shorter first time fics, though that may be because I read unconventional ships which have different story needs? Or maybe we're just reading different?
I think that is probably more fandom specific than not. The two dominate het pairings in LFN are established either before canon even begins, or literally, in the very first episode - so first time stories just don't have much place. As for shorter - I think that is a broad lj trend? (I don't have much evidence, just a gut feeling as a reader).
But I do agree with you about the problematic resolutions of the more forgettable/frustrating fic - especially when it seems to jettison what we know about characters.
Absolutely - a lot of it is just horrid and on so many levels. But in some ways, even the horror interests me - because I'm fascinated by the power of the dominate cultural tropes to overpower more original stories.
What you're saying about LFN (I haven't watched it) as a mainly het fandom is interesting - Dark Angel too has very little slash, though there was space in the canon for femslash, at least.
Interestingly enough, there is plenty of space in LFN for both f/f and m/m, in the sense that the main male was hit on more than once, in canon, by other men - but in terms of plot lines and regular/reccuring characters - the f/f is way ahead in terms of writing potential. I never watched Dark Angel (Jessica Alba, right?), but it certainly looked like something I would enjoy.